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Jim Hawkins
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 Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:02 am Post subject: Correct ascription ? |
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Recently I switched on the radio to hear what I was convinced was a Mozart
piano concerto - but one I didn't know!
I was shocked when at the end it was announced as Beethoven's 2nd.
I am not a musicologist, but I love my Mozart, and reckon I can invariably
tell when I hear a Mozart work previously unknown to me.
I would have staked a lot on that concerto being a Mozart work.
Is there any possible doubt that the work is Beethoven's ?
Jim Hawkins |
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David Oberman
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:26 am Post subject: Re: Correct ascription ? |
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"Jim Hawkins" <jimhawkins@manx.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Recently I switched on the radio to hear what I was convinced was a Mozart
piano concerto - but one I didn't know!
I was shocked when at the end it was announced as Beethoven's 2nd.
I am not a musicologist, but I love my Mozart, and reckon I can invariably
tell when I hear a Mozart work previously unknown to me.
I would have staked a lot on that concerto being a Mozart work.
Is there any possible doubt that the work is Beethoven's ?
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http://w3.rz-berlin.mpg.de/cmp/beethoven_piano_con2.html
"This influence is most easily perceived in Beethoven's early chamber
music, yet his first two piano concerti also bear a certain Mozartian
flavor. That the earlier master's style would play a role is
reasonable, for until Beethoven's late concerti arrived on the scene,
Mozart was considered the master of the piano concerto, having
completed twenty-seven works in the genre. Beethoven knew Mozart's
concerti well. In his own early piano concerti, he built upon this
familiarity, echoing Mozart's overall structure, while opting for
rather heartier orchestration and more unusual, less mannered melodies
and harmonies that hint at the power to come in later Beethoven
compositions." [Elizabeth Schwarm Glesner]
_____________________________________________________________________
www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/concertos.html
"Arguably the most Haydnesque of the concertos - the only major
Beethoven orchestral work not to use clarinets, an instrument that
Haydn was curiously averse to. Beethoven may also have used Mozart's
last piano concerto (K.595) as a model, as both Concertos are scored
for the same orchestra. Beethoven later described this concerto and
the previous one as 'not among my best compositions' - it is however
full of interest and very enjoyable."
____
It is a commonplace that the professions tend to develop jargons,
but it is less often recognized that the modern professions make
their jargons pedantic, as the older jargons of sailors, farmers,
& thieves were not.
-- Barzun |
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Phil P.
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2007 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Correct ascription ? |
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On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 23:02:28 +0100, "Jim Hawkins" <jimhawkins@manx.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Recently I switched on the radio to hear what I was convinced was a Mozart
piano concerto - but one I didn't know!
I was shocked when at the end it was announced as Beethoven's 2nd.
I am not a musicologist, but I love my Mozart, and reckon I can invariably
tell when I hear a Mozart work previously unknown to me.
I would have staked a lot on that concerto being a Mozart work.
Is there any possible doubt that the work is Beethoven's ?
Jim Hawkins
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No doubt, it's Beethoven, but 1798 Beethoven, and it has many similarities to
the Mozart concerti. Orchestra size, use of themes and introductions. |
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David W
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:58 am Post subject: Re: Correct ascription ? |
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"David Oberman" <doberman@etc.> wrote in message
news:f0ji93t89m6av5ioc2odn3f4rp7ed32567@4ax.com...
| Quote: |
www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/concertos.html
"Arguably the most Haydnesque of the concertos - the only major
Beethoven orchestral work not to use clarinets, an instrument that
Haydn was curiously averse to. Beethoven may also have used Mozart's
last piano concerto (K.595) as a model, as both Concertos are scored
for the same orchestra. Beethoven later described this concerto and
the previous one as 'not among my best compositions' - it is however
full of interest and very enjoyable."
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Yes, no. 1 is very enjoyable. The 2nd movement is among my favourite movements
from all the concertos. |
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Donn Miller
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:56 pm Post subject: Re: Correct ascription ? |
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David Oberman wrote:
| Quote: | www.kingsbarn.freeserve.co.uk/concertos.html
"Arguably the most Haydnesque of the concertos - the only major
Beethoven orchestral work not to use clarinets, an instrument that
Haydn was curiously averse to. Beethoven may also have used Mozart's
last piano concerto (K.595) as a model, as both Concertos are scored
for the same orchestra. Beethoven later described this concerto and
the previous one as 'not among my best compositions' - it is however
full of interest and very enjoyable."
|
I've never heard of this before - that Haydn was averse to clarinets.
I've noticed that some of Mozart's works omitted clarinets on occasion
as well. Maybe clarinets weren't used as often before Beethoven. For
example, Mozart's symphony no. 40 originally didn't have clarinets. He
later scored them in, and did some re-working of the oboe parts (if I'm
not mistake). So much for Mozart composing entire symphonies "in his
noodle" and writing them out in full with no revisions ("Amadeus").
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