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Kevin Ward
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 Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: Did Beethoven write a type of boogie or swing? |
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I shudder to mention the movie "Copying Beethoven" here. I'm sure someone
will get all up in arms about it. I have to say I enjoyed the movie as
historical fiction (emphasis on *fiction*) about how Beethoven might have
been in an alternate universe or something.
In the movie is a snippet of piano music -- I think it's from one of the
piano sonatas -- that sounds just like boogie-woogie or swing jazz. Really
bizarre for the early 1800's I would think. I seem to recall hearing a
piano sonata that sounds this way, but I can't remember which one. If only
they had names instead of just numbers. In the movie it is played by his
publisher who is complaining about the newer Beethoven compared with older
more accessible stuff.
Does anyone know which piece it is? And how was it perceived when it was
new? |
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David Oberman
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Did Beethoven write a type of boogie or swing? |
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"Kevin Ward" <kevin1344@sigma_draconis.net> wrote:
| Quote: | In the movie is a snippet of piano music -- I think it's from one of the
piano sonatas -- that sounds just like boogie-woogie or swing jazz. Really
bizarre for the early 1800's I would think. I seem to recall hearing a
piano sonata that sounds this way, but I can't remember which one. If only
they had names instead of just numbers. In the movie it is played by his
publisher who is complaining about the newer Beethoven compared with older
more accessible stuff.
Does anyone know which piece it is? And how was it perceived when it was
new?
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It's the Arietta of Piano Sonata No. 32, Op. 111 -- specifically the
3rd variation.
This sonata was allegedly a favorite of Chopin's.
____
The colour of my soul is iron-grey & sad bats wheel about the steeple of my dreams.
-- Debussy |
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Kevin Ward
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Did Beethoven write a type of boogie or swing? |
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"David Oberman" <doberman@etc.> wrote in message
news:glbeu39295ur0htsnhit51fk8jfad1dslf@4ax.com...
| Quote: | It's the Arietta of Piano Sonata No. 32, Op. 111 -- specifically the
3rd variation.
This sonata was allegedly a favorite of Chopin's.
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Yes, that's the one. After giving it my undivided attention -- harder to do
these days -- I'm thinking it's more jarring to my modern ears because I am
accustomed to these rhythms in jazz from the 1920's onward, but would never
expect them in a piece from the 1820's. I'm listening to Beethoven and
quite suddenly it's Jellyroll Morton.
Somehow I missed really paying attention to this great piece. I need to
find a better version than the one I have and become more acquainted with
it. The fourth variation to the ending is riveting.
Thank.you. |
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David Oberman
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Did Beethoven write a type of boogie or swing? |
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"Kevin Ward" <kevin1344@sigma_draconis.net> wrote:
| Quote: | Yes, that's the one. After giving it my undivided attention -- harder to do
these days -- I'm thinking it's more jarring to my modern ears because I am
accustomed to these rhythms in jazz from the 1920's onward, but would never
expect them in a piece from the 1820's. I'm listening to Beethoven and
quite suddenly it's Jellyroll Morton.
Somehow I missed really paying attention to this great piece. I need to
find a better version than the one I have and become more acquainted with
it. The fourth variation to the ending is riveting.
|
You can download a free audio file (MP3) of the excellent pianist
Andras Schiff discussing Op. 111 here:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2006/12/schiff_on_beethoven_final_part.html
Schiff mostly supports your view that it sounds syncopated-jazzy to us
because we know the rhythms of jazz idioms; but Schiff deplores the
"jazzy" or "boogie" labels to be banal & diminishing when applied to
Op. 111 or to Beethoven in any context.
____
The colour of my soul is iron-grey & sad bats wheel about the steeple of my dreams.
-- Debussy |
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Kevin Ward
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:38 am Post subject: Re: Did Beethoven write a type of boogie or swing? |
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"David Oberman" <doberman@etc.> wrote in message
news:fbvgu3lo8k80hnrv12qddul2j8g1ujlfsj@4ax.com...
| Quote: | You can download a free audio file (MP3) of the excellent pianist
Andras Schiff discussing Op. 111 here:
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2006/12/schiff_on_beethoven_final_part.html
Schiff mostly supports your view that it sounds syncopated-jazzy to us
because we know the rhythms of jazz idioms; but Schiff deplores the
"jazzy" or "boogie" labels to be banal & diminishing when applied to
Op. 111 or to Beethoven in any context.
That link is a real goldmine. He discusses all the piano sonatas! That's |
enough to keep me and my iPod busy for some months I believe. Weeks anyway.
Thanks very much. |
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David Oberman
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Did Beethoven write a type of boogie or swing? |
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"Kevin Ward" <kevin1344@sigma_draconis.net> wrote:
| Quote: | That link is a real goldmine. He discusses all the piano sonatas! That's
enough to keep me and my iPod busy for some months I believe. Weeks anyway.
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Yes, indeedy!
Come join us on the Beethoven Reference Site forum!
www.gyrix.com/forums/index.php
It gets much more activity than this newsgroup.
____
I love corporate accounting. It's like ALICE
IN WONDERLAND without the wit, poetry, or illustrations.
-- Sean O'Hara, ramp-f |
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